Too Many Forums

Most of us know that it is never a good idea to start a new forum with a ton of categories/sections/sub-forums. But I never fail to see new forums start up with so many extraneous boards that just add to appearance of emptiness of the site.

What are your thoughts on sites that have too many forums and categories? Namely new forums...

 

If it's an entirely new venture, having an excessive number of categories is not the best route to take.

As a community becomes larger, it is sometimes necessary to reorganize the existing structure in order to improve the appearance and efficiency of the forum. Let's say that a community's structure consists of one category and three boards under it (each containing 100,000+ posts). After reaching such a point, it may be wise to "break-up" these posts and organize them into easier to access sub-forums.

If a newly launched forum (with zero posts and/or members) decides to use a structure that consists of 15 categories and 50 boards, it will appear as completely intimidating to prospective members.

 

Too many categories creates confusion - whether its an old or new forum. There is one nice forum that I do not post in because it has too many subforums.

 

Start light and add as your site grows.

My favorite example is Sitepoint.com. When I joined there in 1999, it had 4 categories and 9 forums. After switching to vBulletin in 2001 and having 60,000 posts, it started morphing into the structure it has now. Even then it didn't have as many forums as it does today. You need to let your traffic and conversations dictate the method you grow in. This is an evolutionary response and should work well for any forum.

 

Definitely add more forums as your site grows, with the subject of each form being one that people are discussing a lot on your actual forum. Starting off with too many forums is bad not so much because it causes confusion, as some people here said, but because it makes the site as a whole look dead. Think about it, what looks like a thriving community to you, 10000 posts in each forum and four forums, or 10000 posts spread across a thousand forums. Plus, not only do forums with 0 posts look worse (which a lot of sites with too many forums to start end up with), but you can't tell what your members will discuss. Why add a forum for a topic no one cares about and bothers talking about anyway?

 

Yep..just add them as required..IMHO..

Empty sub-forums does not look good.

 

I have a few bare sub-forums that may need to be trimmed / merged / new content added soon. However, I know the Forum traffic will increase when the website is finished.

 

I Always Have Alot Of Forums. Its Not Bad. Just Want

The Right Things Where They Belong

 

Do you find that using such a vast structure has enhanced the overall "user" experience of the community, or has it hindered its growth?

 

I Just Want Things To Be Posted In Correct Places And All.
Like User Friendly And Easy To Navigate Kind Of Way. But
Overall, They Seem To Navigate The Forum Easily.

 

Initial Forum Structure Questions

Wayne Luke - thanks for this bit of history. Since I have only been working on forums for a short time it is helpful to have your insight into what popular forums looked like when they first got going.

Just a few questions: I have heard people say that creating many categories provides guidance for new members and allows them to feel confident that they are "posting where they should be." Were you new to forums when you joined in 1999? Do you remember if you felt the 4 categories and 9 forums set up was intuitive, or where the categories too broad?

Thanks!
RR

 

Well for the most part, categorized forums were fairly new in 1999. However I had been using discussion groups on AOL, Compuserve and Prodigy since 1985. Plus I was involved in quite a few BBSes in those days. Forums are just a new presentation of what I was used to already.

I don't remember the exact categories and forum names but it was a webmaster site so there were forums for HTML and CSS, Marketing, Content, General Chat, Site Feedback and a few others. It wasn't really hard to figure out where things went as a user. However eventually, building a website was a lot more complicated than slapping something on Geocities (where Sitepoint got its actual start as Webmaster Resources) so you need more categorization.

Choice is a double-edged sword. People think they want choice and order but having too many choices confuses them. One of the most popular fast food places in Southern California is called In-N-Out. They basically have 6 things on the menu... Hamburgers, Cheeseburgers, Double-Double, Fries, Sodas, Shakes. That is it. The local one is busier than the Macdonald's that is nearby. Simple and easy to choose. Go to anywhere else with a family and while ordering you hear a lot of "I don't know" when you ask someone what they want.

When you create your new forum, you need to be careful with your choice. You'll get the same thing. Let's look at a new gaming forum and two possible forum structures. Neither have content...

First we have a forum with a lot of areas like this:

Consoles
-- Playstation
---- Playstation 2
---- Playstation 3
-- XBOX
---- XBOX
---- XBOX 360
-- Nintendo
---- Game Cube
---- Wii
---- Gameboy
---- DSi
Computers
-- Windows
-- Macintosh
-- Linux
Community
-- Movies
-- Music
-- Chit Chat
-- Feedback

Now the second community with the same focus.
Games
-- Playstation
-- Wii
-- XBOX
-- Computer
Community
-- Movies
-- Music
-- Chit Chat
-- Feedback

Now, I am a new user and I am playing World of Warcraft. I want to ask a question about World of Warcraft in general but I use a Macintosh. So I post in the Macintosh forum. However 95% of all WoW players use Windows. They'll never see my question. So my question doesn't get answered and I leave to go elsewhere.

Of course, you can argue that today dividing your gaming community by device is an ill fated solution because most games are available on multiple platforms. Genre would be much better. Even then you should have a smaller number of genres. For instance, Action and Adventure are often used interchangeably as Genres. So instead of two forums they should be listed together. Should you have a forum called "RPG" and another called "MMORPG" or should there be an "Online" category only? Then what about RTS games like Warcraft III which is also an RPG and Online?

When creating a community, one should site down and figure out where to start. Like any endeavor it needs planning. I would recommend whittling down your initial choices to 3-4 categories and 8-10 forums total. You should give your users choice but not overwhelm them. If later you find that World of Warcraft is dominating your MMORPG forum so that other games are being ignore than make a new World of Warcraft sub-forum and move those threads into it. When you have several sub-forums than promote MMORPG to the category level. Any forum software worth using should allow multiple levels of categories, forums and sub-forums. However you don't really want to go more than four levels deep. You'll start confusing your users. Three deep should be considered reasonable for more purposes.

My categories for a brand new gaming forum would be:

Games
-- Action / Adventure
-- Console Slider
-- First Person Shooter
-- Real Time Simulation
-- Role Playing
-- Puzzle
-- Board Games
Community
-- Other Entertainment (Movies, TV, Music)
-- Chit Chat
-- Site Feedback

As the community grew, I can divide and subdivide as needed.

 

Feedback Section

Wayne Luke - huge kudos my friend! Thank you for the quick and through response. That was very helpful! I love your example about the gamer forum; it makes your point very clear.

I read "Managing Online Forms" by Patrick O'Keefe and he suggested not to have a feedback section on the site. I see that AdminAddict has one and it has some good content. Do you see the feedback section as helpful or just something that people have come to expect and therefore added? I think for a forum like this it may be a great tool, but on forums for "non-tech" people I wonder about it's worth.

Thanks!
RR

 

Hm, interesting... I have this book as well; I'm going to pull it out and see why Patrick doesn't recommend having a Suggestions/Feedback forum. I also believe this question should be a thread of its own, so I created one here: Feedback or Suggestions Forum?

 

This part of your answer I agree with. Choice seems important to some, but too many choices will confuse members (see the 'don't know' point in your last paragraph, it's pretty much the same for a forum).

To be fair, I'd say both your plans are too many forums. Why do you need a movies or music board for a gaming community? Just cut those down to general, and wait until members are willing to actually discuss those things and enough topics have been made about them.

Otherwise the second is generally good. One exception though; relying on recent consoles names = not a good idea. Sure, the Playstation and Xbox have gone under those brand names for a decent time, but there could come a point in which the next console by said companies could be renamed. Naming the Nintendo forum 'Wii' is plain silly, because their consoles don't follow a consistent naming scheme (Nintendo Entertainment System, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, Nintendo 64, Game Boy/Game Boy Colour/Game Boy Advance, Gamecube DS, Wii, heck Game and Watch and Virtual Boy). Best to play it somewhat safe for the major console publishers and go by something a bit more generic in case of future consoles having a different naming scheme.

Genre is an interesting idea... but has flaws. That is by no way a comprehensive list of genres. Sure, it's a few known lists of genres, but as this Wikipedia category list demonstrates, there's a lot of genres and games that fall between the gaps here:

Category:Video game genres - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again, see above. Where would someone post about a casual type game like Wii Sports/Fit, or Brain Training? A sports game like Madden or Fifa? Whatever the heck you'd call WarioWare? Maybe an Other Games forum or make the Games category itself a forum for stuff that can't be categorised?

True.

 

Cheat-master - interesting points. As someone that doesn't know much about gaming the outline that Wayne Luke put together makes sense to me. If I was new to a forum like that I would think that Wii Sports/Fit & Madden would go under Action games, but you do have me stumped on Brain Training (and I have no idea what WarioWare is).

But, that begs the question "Who are forums for?" Some people come to sites looking to use the forums to learn more about a new topic and therefore the simplistic structure is useful. However, what about those that already have a passion for the topic and instinctively know the subtle differences? Is the simplistic structure actually more confusing for them? Maybe the question is "which type of user are you looking to cater to?" Which one is more likely to be an active member in your forums and help you grow your site? Perhaps the answer to that question will help to determine how a new forum should be structured.

Thanks,
RR

 

Yeah.. It was an example. It was meant to be simple, not something put into practice. I am sure it got the idea across.

To tell the truth, if I was starting a gaming community. I wouldn't use forums at all but groups. There is too much variety in gaming to really work well in a forum setting in my opinion.

 

That's an interesting idea Wayne Luke, can you explain? Would it be using the SocialForums addon with the Social Groups in vBulletin, or something completely different?

 

Wayne, weren't you working on a unique project using vBulletin where you were going to use the Social Groups in a unique way or something? I vaguely recall something like this...

 

I have 18 forums despite having almost a million posts and having been running since 2002. I used to have a few more but keep pruning them back. I'd like to only have about ten but the ones we have are popular and people always complain if I remove any!

Yet I still see new sites springing up with more forums than I have, often double.

I started a new forum in June, now admittedly its main focus is to be an arcade and we're not aiming for many posts, but even if that wasn't the case, it has opened with just three forums and one of those is support/feedback.