Does xenForo get communities?

Discussion in 'XenForo Discussions' started by BamaStangGuy, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. BamaStangGuy

    BamaStangGuy Administrator

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    I feel like someone that creates software for communities, which is what forums are and is what xenForo is doing, should get what makes a community great. I have always appreciated the role that Kier and Mike played in taking vBulletin to its peak but I get a sense that neither of them know what it takes to appreciate a community and be actively involved in one.

    Kier, Mike and some of the rest of the paid team over at xenForo seem to come off emotionless and robotic frequently. The only personality that you get out Kier and Mike seem to come from things directly involved with the software code wise, in which case they will give you their highly precise response to a bug report or something of that nature.

    The whole reason this struck me odd is I discovered this thread: http://xenforo.com/community/threads/xencake-a-celebration.45518/ today while browsing around.

    Someone literally created a cake for xenForo. A pretty awesome looking cake as well.

    Not a single owner of xenForo responded to that entire thread.

    That struck me as very odd. Someone makes a cake about one of my forums I'm going to at least have the courtesy to respond to it and show some kind of personality.

    I get it. They were sued. Lives were altered. Shit sucks. As a customer I went through all that as well and stuck by them. A little community wouldn't hurt xenForo. Its severely lacking currently in my opinion.

    Great software, great potential but a rough start to its history and a feeling of lack of community. I see much larger corporations pulling off a better sense of community than xenForo.

    Maybe times have changed and things have soured enough in the forum software world where everyone has pulled back and tried to shelter themselves from the massive amounts of money and competition that have entered our niche. Internet Brands being the biggest leader in lack of innovation and classlessness to the entire niche.

    I just know if someone creates a cake and takes that kind of time out of their day to show appreciate for something I do, I'm going to at least comment on it.

    It just worries me to see things like that. Maybe they are just working so much on xenForo that they can't take the time out to acknowledge the community. It just worries me to look toward the future and have no clue what to expect from xenForo until they tell us.

    My suggestion for better guest to member conversions was created as a duplicate suggestion: http://xenforo.com/community/threads/show-post-thread-button-reply-box-to-guests.69771/

    The only link in that thread to another suggestion is to a direct post of Kier's 3 years and 2 months ago. No courtesy reply to say "Like this post (and link to the actual first post) if you agree with this suggestion because this is a duplicate of this thread."

    Just marked as Duplicate and moved away. Brogan style. Little thought or care put into it. Quantity over quality? Maybe they need more people on board if Brogan is the person that is going to be relied on for most of the work?

    Communication has gone down hill with the team there and its become such pragmatic with responses.

    Just not sure what to think about the community as a whole right now there. Maybe more competition will help. IPB4 is about our best shot at that considering IB has given up.

    We will see I suppose.

    Edit: I do want to point out that they did at least like the cake thread first post (at least Mike did, that is the one I found first). Still seems like a post wouldn't have been far fetched and my other concerns I think are still valid.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
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  2. John

    John Regular Member

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    You hit the nail on the head with that assessment, Brent. If you search some of the earliest threads there, Kier and Mike were highly involved in "just shooting the breeze" and it was noticed and had a big impact on the sense of community and the launch. Everyone involved felt like this was a cool project that a tight bunch of friends was bringing to life and it added to the excitement, and the support given when times got tough. Heck, even when things were still under wraps, certain ones of us were approached to get involved - because we were friends. That all changed with the lawsuit and has never recovered. The cold shoulder I got, and continue to get, from those whom I thought were my friends had a lot to do with why I decided I was finished with XF and the lot of them. The place is now full of either people seeing what they can get for free or the one's trying to make a buck off of it. Sure, there are certain exceptions to that, but they are the minority. I'm not the only one who feels this way, either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
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  3. GTB

    GTB Regular Member

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    Think that is because they create XenForo to earn a living, as far as their interest goes really.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
  4. BamaStangGuy

    BamaStangGuy Administrator

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    Wasn't always the case, as John stated.
     
  5. BamaStangGuy

    BamaStangGuy Administrator

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    I've always been a customer first and have never really gotten emotionally involved with Kier, Mike, or any of the current crew at xenForo. Even during the vBulletin good days. I always enjoyed the vBulletin community though that existed because of those close ties. Their involvement. Excitement. That has changed for the worst. There is even less real competition now and as a customer I am a bit worried still. Once things resumed with xenForo I figured the excitement and communication we once enjoyed from them would continue. It hasn't.

    Now we have robot moderators over there. Whether it is because of lack of help or otherwise, that is what exists there from my view point. I'm done putting the time I have into the community over there until something changes. I can't handle that kind of atmosphere. If I wanted to be dealt with like that I'd call Comcast.

    Hope IPB 4 brings some real competition so that they can be at least forced to show some personality now. Or something else changes their mind and they can deal with whatever happened that changed the atmosphere.
     
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  6. GTB

    GTB Regular Member

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    Is this the same person who calls everyone else for slagging off XenForo? :censored:
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
  7. John

    John Regular Member

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    lol @ the Comcast analogy - it's perfect! Kier and Mike are brilliant developers and I was tickled to death to see Mike kick it into high gear as soon as the lawsuit ended...and has pretty much consistently kept it up since then. The product is rock solid and has a great future from the pure software aspect of it. The community, if you can call it that, sucks. It depresses me and has for a long time. That's ultimately why I gave up on it all. What the future holds for them and how they get there is beyond me nor do I have any real interest in it going forward...but I do look forward to IPB4. It's a pricey business model, but a stinkin awesome package of products (IP.Nexus is a masterpiece - it is hands down the best digital goods shopping cart/helpdesk I've ever used...and I've tried them all!). I'm not terribly impressed with the core ownership (Lindy is pretty cool), but their staff is much more welcoming and involved which translates to the overall community there as well. Any place with @Mikey and @Ryan Ashbrook on staff rates high in my book. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
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  8. GTB

    GTB Regular Member

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    Yeah but John, you only went to IPB because you theme business failed covering XenForo, you also got miffed when wanting help from KAM and they shunned you. Bit different really, more personal with you because "you saw them as friends!" and was all about you making money out XenForo, same way KAM want to make money. And you've never been a person who says a great deal on forums, just same as Kier doesn't.
     
  9. BamaStangGuy

    BamaStangGuy Administrator

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    Stick to discussions on the topic and don't make this personal. This is about xenForo and forum communities not about why John did what he did.
     
  10. GTB

    GTB Regular Member

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    I'm not making it personal, it's a fact. If you or John don't like that being said, then sorry if the truth hurts...
     
  11. BamaStangGuy

    BamaStangGuy Administrator

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    Go away if this is all you are going to do.
     
  12. GTB

    GTB Regular Member

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    I'll leave this thread with pleasure, have fun.
     
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  13. BamaStangGuy

    BamaStangGuy Administrator

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    If you want to make things personal then get personal with me, the thread creator, and stop with what is obviously some personal issues that you have followed John on. I'm tired of discussions being derailed because of past shit between certain members. I made the thread, I voiced the same concerns as John, so if you want to call someone out on the issues at hand then call me out. Other wise, it is personal because you can't find a reason to respond to me personally, who has the same views as John.
     
  14. John

    John Regular Member

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    I'm afraid you are wrong in your analysis of my businesses, Gary. I guess it might have appeared that way to you from the outside, but, it really wasn't anything like you described. ;)
     
  15. Adrian Schneider

    Adrian Schneider Regular Member

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    As a dev and fairly active developer in vBulletin's prime, my view is probably very bias.

    Forum software is essentially a platform we use to build sites with. If you look at other platforms, developers are one of the leading drivers in community growth. They extend your featureset, and encourage other customers to switch.

    Once you start mistreating them, or if you never treated them well, you'll never gain that massive adoption they can help you swing.

    XenForo's documentation and (correct me if I'm looking in the wrong spot) lack of engagement with the development community is going to massively limit it's uptake. vBulletin also got this horribly wrong when it started moving towards 4.x. Things got worse for developers and designers, and they have continued to.

    Once this happens, big boards start to move away, which are basically the flagship boards that people reference. And the cycle begins somewhere else.

    If I was them, I'd find the top dev/designer influencers and do whatever I could do to make them happy and ensure they're able to extend our development and marketing efforts. Remove barriers and resistance, and let them help. Unfortunately, they tend to work in isolation and think their way is best. I mean, it worked last time right? *sigh*

    Ignoring the dev stuff for a sec, look at how the community for vBulletin look now. It has failed. Once that goes, people start slipping away much more rapidly, the the general brand image starts to show major public-facing cracks. We're already starting to see some of that for XF. I hope it can be corrected before it repeats again.
     
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  16. Mark.B

    Mark.B Regular Member

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    He's not doing that. He's making a constructive and well worded criticism, the vast majority of I and many other will agree with wholeheartedly.
     
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  17. GTB

    GTB Regular Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
  18. BamaStangGuy

    BamaStangGuy Administrator

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  19. s.molinari

    s.molinari Regular Member

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    Interesting conversation. You are right BSG, well, I completely agree with you. You have to be a real part of a your own customer community to sell a community software. It was like that at the beginning. Remember the "bare feet" discussions Kier had? It really had nothing to do with the software, but more about being friends and family....being community.

    As for this comment.

    I'd venture to say their motivations were on a much nobler and more passionate scale than just earning a living. I'd say they wanted to give their customers another (good) forum software alternative and I'd say they have. I hope their efforts haven't turned into just "work" and "making a living". That would be disastrous.

    And as a last statement. Although the showing of "love for the community" is a bit waning currently, they are showing still, quite a bit of love in the production of the software. Maybe that is taking its toll, with just the two of them doing all the work. I can feel for that and maybe everyone else missing some community love should too?:)

    Scott
     
  20. Code Monkey

    Code Monkey Regular Member

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    Well, It's a bit stiff over there that's for sure. But the software is top notch and getting better. That's all a customer can really expect. Though I get what you mean and why you expect more.
     

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